This is what Osama Abdallah originally wrote to Keith, and where I personally got involved (I have removed insults, issues posted to Keith, etc); what you will witness here is a typical debate with Osama Abdallah online:
Osama Abdallah wrote:
Keith the snake,
Why did you delete my last post? Was it too exposing and humiliating to you?
Again liar, show us where Ibn Abbas said that.
I challenge you to produce your evidence liar.
As to your corrupt bible's authors, I've given ample quotes from the bible's theologians admitting that your bible's books had been:
1- Written by unknown men.
2- Written by an unknown number of men.
3- Written in unknown dates.
4- Written in unknown places.
Christians lie and state that such and such "scholar" is an atheist when he isn't, and he's just another snake and a liar like them who had put on an atheist's mask and made a statement favoring to the gospel of porn on their behalf.
These tricks are getting old. All you've got are speculations and desperations.
LOL Plus Even if it were true that the gospel narratives were written by those who followed the desciples or passed on oral tradition God is powerful enough to pull that off. It's justnot an issue.
Osama Abdallahwww.answering-christianity.com
April 7, 2009 9:27 PM
I (Elijah) replies:
Osama Abdallah wrote:
As to your corrupt bible's authors, I've given ample quotes from the bible's theologians admitting that your bible's books had been:
1- Written by unknown men.
2- Written by an unknown number of men.
3- Written in unknown dates.
4- Written in unknown places.
Elijah replies:A few issues need to considered here. Osama's appeal to theologians is a typical islamic trick.
It typical backfires, since these scholars and their methods will ussually harm islam in the same way; muslims ussually avoid telling us that side of the story.
Furthermore, this approach of Osama is a joke and fairly non-academic.
While I spend my time studying primary sources, all Osama can do is posting us references or quotes from secondary sources. And not only are these secondary sources these are quotes. As to his four objections, they are easily refuted.
No the Gospels were not written by unknown men, Papias a disciple of John the elder (and eyewitness and disciple of Jesus) and who also was aquainted with a number of early successors and eyewitnesses, had it from John while John was alive that Mark dictated his Gospel from the mouth of Peter in Rome.
Furthermore, Papias also confirms that Matthew wrote Matthew in Hebrew (probably Aramaic language).
A similar testimony is provided by Justin Martyr in Rome in 150 AD in which a line of successors and transmitters were present, in which he testifies that Mark's Gospel is the Gospel of Peter.
Irenaeus who was a disciple of Polycarp, who was a disciple of John the apostle, and who also knew a number of other eyewitness confirms the information as well, and also provides information about Luke and John Gospels.
Here we have primary sources testifying to the authors, the number of authors and the date, which would be the first century.
In fact even critical scholars admit that the gospels are written within the first century.We also know that Mark was written in Rome and Matthew was written in Syria and John written in Ephesus.
We are not certain about where Luke wrote his gospel, but who cares, we know Luke wrote it, we know that Luke knew the apostles and we know when he wrote it.
April 8, 2009 6:22 AM
Osama replies:
Hogan,
If quoting your bible's commentaries and appendecies to each chapter are secondary sources to you, then obviously you are a hopeless case.
Osama Abdallahwww.answering-christianity.com
April 8, 2009 8:22 AM
I (Elijah) replies:
Osama wrote:
Hogan,If quoting your bible's commentaries and appendecies to each chapter are secondary sources to you, then obviously you are a hopeless case.
Elijah replies:
Osama,
commentaries are secondary sources.
For example, the Bible is a primary source, early church fathers are primary sources as to the history and background of church history and in the field of textual criticism.
Commentaries and opinions on Bible and these writings from second century scholars are secondary sources.
I find it funny that you can plant a large website on the internet promoting islam and attempting to refute Christianity, without focusing on the primary sources.
This debunks you (Osama)as a scholar; it certainly suggests that you are not worthy of consideration when probing into the Biblical studies. You need to provide something more impressive.
April 8, 2009 8:40 AM
Notice, this is how it ussually works, Osama comes up with some incredible ideas, I refute these, he brings up more ideas of similar nature, I refute these, then he runs.
Thursday, 9 April 2009
Atheists and their supression of the opposing factions
Atheists and Evolutionists despartely fear Intelligent design.
Watch the video below:
Barbara Forrest shares her desparation of how Intelligent design is challenging the atheist foundation for a atheist type universe (mind though I do not know her view upon religion).
Notice firstly that these people are so desparate that they want the law to end the influence of Creationists.
Notice secondly that she finds it almost a crime that Christian kids challenge their school teachers about the lying propaganda of evolution. Well I thought our society was based upon, debate, reason, research rather than a supressing academia that enforces its conclusions upon us; seems that we are back in the ancient dark ages, only now the atheists play the suppressive role.
Notice, thirdly that the evolution theory is simply science while creation is not, talk about presuppositions.
Notice, fourthly, that science is based upon presuppositions, and these presuppositions do simply not allow God any space in the possible conclusions.
She claims that Christians base their science upon authority! Really, is she then concluding that the secular world is not depending upon authority? More or less all my studies have been supressed by secular academia, believe, Christians do not have monopoly upon authority.
Funny, in every field of philosophy and science with the natural academia conclusions are based upon authority, namely what you are permitted to conclude as plausible and what to reject. In my studies I am not allowed to conclude that Jesus resurrected since that simply breaks the natural law. I am not allowed to claim that the Gospels were written prior to 60 AD since that supports the possibility that Jesus predicted the fall of Jerusalem which then is supernatural, and because such an early date increses the possibility that the Gospels are historical. Similarly we are not allowed to conclude that the apostles wrote the Gospels since such again supports its historical reliabilty. The fact is that the secular academia is greatly supressive and distortive and these same minds intend to enforce upon us the evolution theory of which not shred of actual evidence has be brought before us.
Funny then, that she just throws this claim of authority upon those of us who accept the fact that the universe needed a creator and that the process of the universe is far to complex to be random, while atheist presume the opposite, I hence need a lot of explanation to do. This is the very reason why atheists and their claim to science and intelligence is so absurd and naive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m-AT4unW4Q&feature=channel_page
Watch the video below:
Barbara Forrest shares her desparation of how Intelligent design is challenging the atheist foundation for a atheist type universe (mind though I do not know her view upon religion).
Notice firstly that these people are so desparate that they want the law to end the influence of Creationists.
Notice secondly that she finds it almost a crime that Christian kids challenge their school teachers about the lying propaganda of evolution. Well I thought our society was based upon, debate, reason, research rather than a supressing academia that enforces its conclusions upon us; seems that we are back in the ancient dark ages, only now the atheists play the suppressive role.
Notice, thirdly that the evolution theory is simply science while creation is not, talk about presuppositions.
Notice, fourthly, that science is based upon presuppositions, and these presuppositions do simply not allow God any space in the possible conclusions.
She claims that Christians base their science upon authority! Really, is she then concluding that the secular world is not depending upon authority? More or less all my studies have been supressed by secular academia, believe, Christians do not have monopoly upon authority.
Funny, in every field of philosophy and science with the natural academia conclusions are based upon authority, namely what you are permitted to conclude as plausible and what to reject. In my studies I am not allowed to conclude that Jesus resurrected since that simply breaks the natural law. I am not allowed to claim that the Gospels were written prior to 60 AD since that supports the possibility that Jesus predicted the fall of Jerusalem which then is supernatural, and because such an early date increses the possibility that the Gospels are historical. Similarly we are not allowed to conclude that the apostles wrote the Gospels since such again supports its historical reliabilty. The fact is that the secular academia is greatly supressive and distortive and these same minds intend to enforce upon us the evolution theory of which not shred of actual evidence has be brought before us.
Funny then, that she just throws this claim of authority upon those of us who accept the fact that the universe needed a creator and that the process of the universe is far to complex to be random, while atheist presume the opposite, I hence need a lot of explanation to do. This is the very reason why atheists and their claim to science and intelligence is so absurd and naive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m-AT4unW4Q&feature=channel_page
Monday, 6 April 2009
Questions for Osama Abdallah: Related to the Qur'an and Cosmology
I am informed that Osama Abdallah has stated that his priory reason for being and remaining a muslim are the supposed Qur'anic predictions of modern science.
The Qur'an states that:
1. That Allah separated the heavens and earth who once were combined together or fused. This is supposedly a prediction to the Big Bang theory.
2. That the heavens were once smoke. This is supposedly a prediction of the early state of the universe in its gasseous level.
3. That Allah initially made the smoke into seven heavens. I am not sure exactly what this is supposed to predict.
My questions for Osama Abdallah:
1. Would you state that these are miracolous predictions to modern science?
2. Would you say that these predictions provide good reason for an individual to remain a muslim?
Saturday, 4 April 2009
A Challenge for Osama Abdallah
This challenge to Osama Abdallah is on the board mainly for Osama to respond to.
It is my hope and desire to debate him later this year. I have informed him that I am available for such a debate any time after June when most of my studies are over.
I hope Osama and I can agree over a topic.
I hope also we can do this in a godly behavior appropriate for theists, with the the outmost respect and integrity for each other, despite our views on each others religion.
One word of caution: if our dialogue prior to the debate leads toward personal insult or attack, I will withdraw from the challenge.
I will be waiting for Osama to respond.
It is my hope and desire to debate him later this year. I have informed him that I am available for such a debate any time after June when most of my studies are over.
I hope Osama and I can agree over a topic.
I hope also we can do this in a godly behavior appropriate for theists, with the the outmost respect and integrity for each other, despite our views on each others religion.
One word of caution: if our dialogue prior to the debate leads toward personal insult or attack, I will withdraw from the challenge.
I will be waiting for Osama to respond.
Friday, 20 February 2009
Why I accept Form-Criticism but don't buy the Form-Critical theory
Just a few words on the Bible and form-criticism.
Form criticism as a method is not necessarily an enemy of Christianity as often presumed.
In fact form ciriticism has privileged us to recognise and study the variaty of forms and genres in the Gospels.
However Form criticism as a theory is a different matter.
While Form Criticism applies the methods that may be reasonable for Christians to take on board, the theory also carries a number of presuppositions (which I would call blunders) that Christians need to be aware of.
Firstly, it presupposes that the society of the first century was utter chaos, for example, that people generally, were unable to read, passive and unable to memorize, passive and unable to preserve information, unable to remain united or to organise themselves.
This is however completely wrong information.
The ancient world was highly concerned about preservation even among the illiterate.
Secondly, people in both the Greek and Jewish world were able to read and write. In fact the highest literacy in the first century existed among Jews.
Thirdly, the practicse of memorization, recitation and transmission via a chain of successors was a common practice among both Greeks and Jews.
This simply renders the entire Form-critical postulate futile and false.
Form criticism also presupposes that a variaty of forms or genres necessarily idenfies a variaty of sources. This idea has been utilized by atheists and muslims alike in their attack on the Bible.
For example: Jesus taught individuals (source 1), Jesus taught the crowds (source 2), Jesus spoke in parables (source 3), Jesus spoke wisdom (source 4), Jesus healed the sick (source 5), Jesus travelled back and forward (narrative) (source 6), Jesus died and resurrected (source 7).
It may come as chock that form-critical scholars assume that because these vary in their genere, these must be separate sources that the gospel writers must have compiled from various locations, individuals and from different eras of the first century.
Really?
Imagine a surgeon who practicing in a university hospital is involved with both teaching and practice.
Lets say that for one day he will be followed by a journalist who will write down every detail, word and deed for this one day only.
1. In the morning he chats with co-workers, students, friends and patients (this is source one).
2. Prior to lunch he gives a tutor session to a student (source two)
3. In the afternoon he lectures to a group of twenty students (source three)
4. Just before take off home, he is called to do an emergent surgery (source four)
5. He drives home (and of course he drow to work in the morning) (source five)
6. Unfortunately on the way he ends up in a serious road accident which sends him to the hospital, he nevertheless recovers after two weeks (source 6).
When he the book is published a few months later, we decide to apply the theory of form criticism in our scrutiny of it, we most certainly agree that we have a number of genres combined, which to general reader simply reveals that the person engaged in a number of situations and activities each, with in their descriptions require their own identical genre, which suggests that this is one on and the same person, yet, from which the form-critic concludes that this is not the same person.
Form criticism as a method is not necessarily an enemy of Christianity as often presumed.
In fact form ciriticism has privileged us to recognise and study the variaty of forms and genres in the Gospels.
However Form criticism as a theory is a different matter.
While Form Criticism applies the methods that may be reasonable for Christians to take on board, the theory also carries a number of presuppositions (which I would call blunders) that Christians need to be aware of.
Firstly, it presupposes that the society of the first century was utter chaos, for example, that people generally, were unable to read, passive and unable to memorize, passive and unable to preserve information, unable to remain united or to organise themselves.
This is however completely wrong information.
The ancient world was highly concerned about preservation even among the illiterate.
Secondly, people in both the Greek and Jewish world were able to read and write. In fact the highest literacy in the first century existed among Jews.
Thirdly, the practicse of memorization, recitation and transmission via a chain of successors was a common practice among both Greeks and Jews.
This simply renders the entire Form-critical postulate futile and false.
Form criticism also presupposes that a variaty of forms or genres necessarily idenfies a variaty of sources. This idea has been utilized by atheists and muslims alike in their attack on the Bible.
For example: Jesus taught individuals (source 1), Jesus taught the crowds (source 2), Jesus spoke in parables (source 3), Jesus spoke wisdom (source 4), Jesus healed the sick (source 5), Jesus travelled back and forward (narrative) (source 6), Jesus died and resurrected (source 7).
It may come as chock that form-critical scholars assume that because these vary in their genere, these must be separate sources that the gospel writers must have compiled from various locations, individuals and from different eras of the first century.
Really?
Imagine a surgeon who practicing in a university hospital is involved with both teaching and practice.
Lets say that for one day he will be followed by a journalist who will write down every detail, word and deed for this one day only.
1. In the morning he chats with co-workers, students, friends and patients (this is source one).
2. Prior to lunch he gives a tutor session to a student (source two)
3. In the afternoon he lectures to a group of twenty students (source three)
4. Just before take off home, he is called to do an emergent surgery (source four)
5. He drives home (and of course he drow to work in the morning) (source five)
6. Unfortunately on the way he ends up in a serious road accident which sends him to the hospital, he nevertheless recovers after two weeks (source 6).
When he the book is published a few months later, we decide to apply the theory of form criticism in our scrutiny of it, we most certainly agree that we have a number of genres combined, which to general reader simply reveals that the person engaged in a number of situations and activities each, with in their descriptions require their own identical genre, which suggests that this is one on and the same person, yet, from which the form-critic concludes that this is not the same person.
Sunday, 15 February 2009
Warning to Christians about the Website of Osama Abdallah
This is a warning about the website www.answering-christianity.com of mr Osama Abdallah
I post here what I wrote to him on the blog www.answering-muslims.org
Osama continually invites Christians to visit his website, which for long time has been categorized as virus loaded.
Within the last week Osama declared that virus protection systems have declared his website virus free, yet within the last 24 my personal virus protection system had to deal with a trojan horse that was about to be loaded on to my computer on entering his website.
If you are interested in Osama contribution to islam, he has written over thousand minor articles of utter speculation, silly ideas, which he categorizes as facts and perverse eisigesis into the Biblical texts. Within the last week on www.answering-muslims.org he has continually piled us with insult and personal attacks.
I have honestly and without the intention to personally attack Osama, told him that I am concerned about his mental stability. Anyone reading his articles on his own website (be careful that you are protected though) and his debating on www.answering-muslims.org and his debate with Davied Wood, which can be watched on the blog will quickly be aware of that.
As Christians we should not hate Abdallah, we need to love him and pray for him, but that does not mean that we should decline from exposing reality.
Hopefully Osama will first sort out his website so anyone can access it safely.
This is my official rebuke of mr Osama Abdallah below:
Osama Abdallah wrote:
Thank you for confirming this. The reader can visit: www.answering-christianity.com/ac10.htm
I (Elijah) replies:
Within the last 24 hours I wisited your website mr OsamaAnd my virus protection system, which is highly suffisticated both detected and removed a trojan horse from your website.
To everyone's attention, my virus system did not merely warn me about the website, it literally acted to protect my computer.
It is one thing when the system warns you not to enter the site, it is another thing when the virus system acts when you enter and informs you that it just had to sort a trojan horse.Which means that within the last 24 hours your the website answering-christianity is still virus loaded.
Have you no shame Osama Abdallah?
Are you lying to us when you say that your website is not virus loaded?
How dare insult me and others, by calling us liars while you continually request us to visit your website which is potentially harmful for our computer or shall we say our identity, or both?
May encourage my brothers here to spread the news around, whether on forums, pal-talk and other websites.
My greatest worry is the typical trend of islamic internet terrorists who possess the tools to track down individuals (Christians and apostates from islam), even in muslim countries.
I write this so that you may protect yourselves. Osama has willingly inviting you to a site that may harm your computer or possibly open up the possibility for muslim radicals to enter the data of your personal information.
As we have seen already, the man is ful of hatred, his favorit verse in the Bible is a passage in which he presumes that a sister has sex with her brother.
I am just exposing the mindset, which he has revealed himself.
Let me warn you (and spread the news): Do not let such a person and his team get access to your personal information, especially if you are visting from a location that is islamic soil.Brothers and sister BE CAREFUL.
I post here what I wrote to him on the blog www.answering-muslims.org
Osama continually invites Christians to visit his website, which for long time has been categorized as virus loaded.
Within the last week Osama declared that virus protection systems have declared his website virus free, yet within the last 24 my personal virus protection system had to deal with a trojan horse that was about to be loaded on to my computer on entering his website.
If you are interested in Osama contribution to islam, he has written over thousand minor articles of utter speculation, silly ideas, which he categorizes as facts and perverse eisigesis into the Biblical texts. Within the last week on www.answering-muslims.org he has continually piled us with insult and personal attacks.
I have honestly and without the intention to personally attack Osama, told him that I am concerned about his mental stability. Anyone reading his articles on his own website (be careful that you are protected though) and his debating on www.answering-muslims.org and his debate with Davied Wood, which can be watched on the blog will quickly be aware of that.
As Christians we should not hate Abdallah, we need to love him and pray for him, but that does not mean that we should decline from exposing reality.
Hopefully Osama will first sort out his website so anyone can access it safely.
This is my official rebuke of mr Osama Abdallah below:
Osama Abdallah wrote:
Thank you for confirming this. The reader can visit: www.answering-christianity.com/ac10.htm
I (Elijah) replies:
Within the last 24 hours I wisited your website mr OsamaAnd my virus protection system, which is highly suffisticated both detected and removed a trojan horse from your website.
To everyone's attention, my virus system did not merely warn me about the website, it literally acted to protect my computer.
It is one thing when the system warns you not to enter the site, it is another thing when the virus system acts when you enter and informs you that it just had to sort a trojan horse.Which means that within the last 24 hours your the website answering-christianity is still virus loaded.
Have you no shame Osama Abdallah?
Are you lying to us when you say that your website is not virus loaded?
How dare insult me and others, by calling us liars while you continually request us to visit your website which is potentially harmful for our computer or shall we say our identity, or both?
May encourage my brothers here to spread the news around, whether on forums, pal-talk and other websites.
My greatest worry is the typical trend of islamic internet terrorists who possess the tools to track down individuals (Christians and apostates from islam), even in muslim countries.
I write this so that you may protect yourselves. Osama has willingly inviting you to a site that may harm your computer or possibly open up the possibility for muslim radicals to enter the data of your personal information.
As we have seen already, the man is ful of hatred, his favorit verse in the Bible is a passage in which he presumes that a sister has sex with her brother.
I am just exposing the mindset, which he has revealed himself.
Let me warn you (and spread the news): Do not let such a person and his team get access to your personal information, especially if you are visting from a location that is islamic soil.Brothers and sister BE CAREFUL.
Thursday, 5 February 2009
Christianity-Answers Delayed
I regret to inform the readers of this blog, that my website Christianity-Answers, will be slightly delayed. Currently, I am drowning in studies, which is the reason why I leave all my posts short.
This has left me rather passive on the various debate forums, which is a pitty, I except however to resume the debate ministry after March.
Those who are Christians, do keep my dissertation in your prayers; it's a rather detailed and complicated study. To be frank I am considering to shorten the proposal and focus on oral tradition and transmission between 30 AD to 200 AD only.
Keep also in mind my Greek and Hebrew studies; these have proven tremendously helpful in my studies but make it difficult when stuck in a dissertation deadline.
This has left me rather passive on the various debate forums, which is a pitty, I except however to resume the debate ministry after March.
Those who are Christians, do keep my dissertation in your prayers; it's a rather detailed and complicated study. To be frank I am considering to shorten the proposal and focus on oral tradition and transmission between 30 AD to 200 AD only.
Keep also in mind my Greek and Hebrew studies; these have proven tremendously helpful in my studies but make it difficult when stuck in a dissertation deadline.
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