Response to Yahya Snow: Cancellation of a Debate

The first matter of worry is Yahya’s icon, that somehow symbolizes this article, namely: ‘The Wedding Crashers’. It surprises me that a Muslim that repels jinns out of his own bedroom reveals insight into such a disgustingly immoral piece of a movie! Have you actually watched this film? My wife and I began watching this movie on television and fairly quickly changed to another channel. I would probably refrain from advertising such garbage on my blog, neither would I utilize it as a icon.

Anyway, as before, Yahya is not (or was not) willing to link to my blog, consequently hoping that his readers fail to grasp the full picture of my article; this is not the first time, hence the reason for my sentence: ‘playing dirty’, the use of ‘The wedding crashers’ only confirms this.

Yahya is presenting this entire matter as a farce.

Notice: did I actually conclude that Yahya Snow was behind the cancellation? This is a vital pre-insight prior to the reading of both articles. In fact Yahya himself enforces this particular point when he writes:

‘he has alleged I (little old Yahya Snow) could have been responsible...’

Exactly, ‘could have been responsible’ is probably a more accurate response; that’s what I concluded.

Yahya Snow writes:

This Yahya Snow guy is quite special; he can "cancel debates" without knowing. Wow, just wow!

Could everybody put aside their paranoia for a second – I never knew this “debate” was even arranged, never mind me being the one responsible for its cancellation! [Mr Hagbard is in red]

Hogan replies:

The reason why this will not work, is because Anjum Ahmed was aware of my planned debate with Ayaz prior to October, which was cancelled from my side. Yet I am not certain as to the reason why the particular debate had to be cancelled, the Muslims failed after two months of my continues emailing to arrange the venue and provide me with details despite our agreement over a date.

What I am saying is: in September-October something occurred that caused the otherwise arranged debate in October not to occur. In October we agree to rearrange another debate, which leads to the scenario this January.

In each case the progress, lacks communication from the Muslim side, and ends in some kind of scenario, in this case to shift the debate to another opponent, even at the last minute, without informing the original debater, despite my continuous communication about the program and details of the debate---suspicious???

Yahya Snow writes:

So Hogan deducts this Anjum Ahmed is me because his “writing style resembled that of Yahya Snow??? If I was to email Hogan I would use MY email address and identify myself. I have no idea who this "Anjum" chap is. Does he even exist?

Hogan replies:

You are raising good points: who is this Anjum Ahmed? Does he exist? Why would you email me, not using your own email address?

Can I speculate some more? Is it possible that you are the only Muslim I know who has focused on the ‘brit thing’, such as your youtube response, in which you use the phrase: ‘a fellow brit indeed’. This first thing popping up in my mind is: Yahya Snow.

I don’t know, is your real name Anjum Ahmed? Is Anjum Ahmed possibly a cover name using a cover email address? Why not? People do that?

Yahya Snow wrote:

"Campaign"? Really? Nobody told me everybody “knows” I have been “playing dirty”. Paranoid, just a little?

Hogan replies:

Do I have to get into details? Well in my experience:

1) you write a response to me, you even upload an entire youtube rebuttal,
2) without linking to my actual writing, without informing people what the matter was all about. 3) Consequently when I inform readers about the link on your blog, you ban me and remove my posts.

Is this playing dirty or not?

Yahya wrote:

??? So this bloke (if he even exists) used a phrase I have used and Mr Hagbard’s mind began working overtime. Sad. Is it not possible for others to use the “fellow Brit” phrase? Is it not conceivable that somebody wanted to misdirect Mr Hagbard via the usage of this phrase? Is it not possible for myself to have enough concealment ability in order to drop a potentially incriminating phrase – if the email was from me?

Hogan replies:

So you see the potential possibility: ‘Is it not conceivable that somebody wanted to misdirect Mr Hagbard via the usage of this phrase...’ Exactly, is it not pretty obvious? Is it really a matter of incriminating? Perhaps the ‘fellow brit’ thing simply reveals your personality, such as: I should focus more on what we have in common as ‘fellow brits’ rather than me being a Christian. That’s how I red you in the very beginning of your writing. Both these cases reveal that even you would view the matter suspicious!

Yahya wrote:

“Propagandist”?? That’s not very “Christ-like”.

Hogan replies:

You don’t play that game with me. I view it this way: If you murder, you are a murderer, if you commit adultery you are an adulterer. And in your case: if you engage in propaganda, your are a propagandist. Jesus would do the very same thing. We have excellent evidence of that!

Yahya Snow writes:

Actually, its something Mr Shamoun would spout. Does this mean Mr Hagbard is Mr Shamoun as they have used a similar turn of phrase…according to the paranoid logic of Mr Hagbard it certainly does.

Hogan replies:

Not an excellent comparison

Yahya Snow replies:

Mr Hagbard would be advised to STOP speculating and START investigating the issues before presenting such outlandish conjecture.

Hogan replies:

That is exactly what I am doing. As to Anjum Ahmed, you have already indicated that my deduction was not completely way off.

Yahya Snow:

I suggest Mr Hagbard emails “Ayaz” immediately and finds out as to the real reason why this debate was called off. Once he does this, I expect a public apology for his outrageous aspersions.

Hogan replies:

When these sort of things occur, personal communication is no longer the option, you have been downplayed and tricked already; trust is no longer an option; this is when you go public, firstly to inform about the cancellation, then to stir up a debate about the actual cause of the predicament.
Yahya snow replied:

NOTE: If I was bent on “cancelling” a debate in Birmingham it would not be too difficult for me to get hold of the organisers and ask them to reconsider – I would hardly require the underhand tactics Mr Hagbard’s paranoia is intimating. Furthermore, if the said debate was cancelled by me it would certainly have been mentioned on this blog or via email to Mr Hagbard – I try to operate in an upfront fashion in my blogging of apologetics.

Hogan replies:

Again perhaps you are simply applying ‘taqqya’, perhaps not? How am I supposed to know? As I pointed out: a Muslim, employing similar terminology as Yahya Snow, who is already suspected of an attempt to cause reason for cancelling another debate, emails me, asking for the email address of my opponent—you yourself treated such as suspicious.

Hence the reason, as I already pointed out, that I am inclined to believe that Yahya Snow or someone else has some involvement in the cancellation.

Yahya Snow replied:

Mr Hagbard seems to have taken a page out from the book of Mr Wood. Mr Wood had a debate cancelled and he began to lash out at everybody and anybody. WITHOUT any proof at all he accused little old Yahya Snow (that’s me), an extremist group (Revolution Muslim) and Abdullah al Andalusi (and who knows who else was accused) publicly for such a cancellation WITHOUT any evidence but merely based on his over active mind. This is precisely what Mr Hagbard is doing here.

Hogan replies:

In your world, Yahya, a simple denial or a claim, sorts out every matter and difficulty-seems obvious from your writing.

I suggest the reader deduces the matter himself from the communication between MDI and Acts17 on the answeringmuslim blog.

Yahya Snow replied:

I WAS EVEN ACCUSED OF BEING THIS BIRMINGHAM “AYAZ” BY SOMEONE ON THE INTERNET (IF MEMORY SERVES ME CORRECT IT WAS MR HAGBARD WHO THOUGHT I WAS THE BIRMINGHAM AYAZ!!!!). Welcome to the odd world of Christian internet apologetics. Wow, just wow!

Hogan replies:

Can you link us to where I actually accused you of being Ayaz? Maybe I did and fail to remember, but can show us where?

I remember that I did raise the question? Raising a question is not the same as accusing! Or is it?

Yahya Snow replied:

The Holy Spirit

When Christians behave and reason in such a fashion whilst simultaneoulsy claiming they have the Holy Spirit (they believe this is a person of God) dwelling within them, you just have to wonder as to the subtle manner in which they negate their beliefs. Think about it.

Hogan replies:

The Holy Spirit actually exposes falsehood. Me raising suspicion about you attempting to cancel a debate, does not exonerate me from the Holy Spirit?
You are way off man!!!

Yahya Snow wrote:

It was not me. The New Year has left My Hagbard more than a little paranoid. I EXPECT a public apology from Mr Hagbard soon – email the organisers and get confirmation it had nothing to do with me, pronto!

Hogan replies:

So you want an apology for having accused you of causing a debate cancellation.

Let me analyze what I actually wrote, before you take it that far; as usual you badly misrepresent information:

I wrote:

‘Perhaps the cause of the pull-out relates to such matters’

(Notice that my first alternative is due to Ayaz’ possible inability to debate; then I move to alternative two:)

‘However, earlier this year a certain Muslim, by the name Anjum Ahmed, whose writing style resembled that of Yahya Snow, attempted several times to obtain information about Ayaz, such as emails, etc.

Everyone knows that Yahya Snow has been playing dirty since the very start, and appeard to launch a campaign to cancel debates between Muslims and the Acts17 team’

(notice: I present this as an alternative, not as a direct accusation)

‘This is speculation from my side but I am inclined to think that Yahya Snow or possibly others indeed managed to influence the Birmingham Dawah team to back out at the very last minute, and even without warning. A move that resembles the sudden cancellation between Muslims and Acts17 earlier this year’

(notice, here that my alternative above, is speculation from my side, I do admit that. I never stated that Yahya Snow cancelled my debate, but I did state that I am personally inclined to think that Yahya Snow may have stirred something up. Notice also, my statement: ‘Yahya Snow or possibly others’, hence my suspicion is not solely directed toward Yahya)

There are a number of points to consider here:

1) I state that there is alternative one and two

2) I state that alternative two drives me to view the possibility, that e.g. Anjum Ahmed is Yahya Snow

3) I state that my second alternative is nevertheless speculative

4) I state that my second alternative may not even include Yahya

To put it lightly, Yahya is driving the entire matter out of proportion

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Additional information:

I mentioned above my suspicion that Anjum Ahmed is Yahya Snow, based on his phrase 'my fellow brit' related to this exact phrase in an attempt to refute me on youtube.

I mentioned that I found a particular trend repeatedly in the early writings of Yahya Snow, this whole thing of me being British and hence having to behave like a british; the primary focus was on being a 'Brit'.

Here is another evidence from a post written by Yahya Snow early last year:

'This is not the way I expect a British Christian to behave,yet alone a Christian who has resided in Bradford, Birmingham and London owing to their respective Muslim populations I would have thought you would have gone beyond such a level of discourse and thought.'

http://christianityresponse.blogspot.com/2010/02/i-am-open-to-learn.html

I am still fairly convinced that Yahya Snow is Anjum Ahmed or Anjum Ahmed is Yahya Snow in disguise. I still have a suspicion about Mr Snow's possible interference to cancel a debate, but as I clarified, that is still speculation from my side.

Now I understand why Yahya Snow is ashamed of revealing his face, I would be too.

Keep in mind Yahya Snow, when it comes to serious, high level interaction within online debating, I give very little for someone who hides himself behind a computer, and I don't believe these 'fellow brits' are gona touch even a hair on your head.

At least you cant brand us Christian debaters who reveal our names or faces, in similar ways, we defend truth and expose falsehood despite the danger we expose ourselves and our families to.

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Further additions:

Earlier this year I posted an entire thread on Yahya Snow’s fear to reveal the link to my blog:

http://christianityresponse.blogspot.com/2010/02/my-suggestion-to-yahya-snow.html

My article informed the readers that I deplore Yahya Snow’s responses which are presenting the information he attempts to refute in wrong context. I pointed out that Yahya Snow even fears revealing the original source so as to avoid revealing his deception to his readers, hence his decision to avoid any link to my blog.

Yahya Snow’s latest refutation (an embarrasing attempt) revealed the same deceptive behaviour, to which I responeded and challenged Yahya:

‘I notice that you are still scared of providing a link to my blog. What are you afraid of? That Muslims will actually read the actual source I find you distorting reality?'

To which Yahya Snow replies:

Being "afraid" to link to your blog? Not really!

I don't have the time to compose another blog post in response to your next post. Please respond via comments on my/your blog or via email.

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=7465988133223323978&postID=3874882737607321105

Hence Yahya can’t reveal to his readers the original source since he has no time to respond. Last time I commented on his blog my comments were all blocked.

Another Christian-Muslim Debate Cancelled

I regret to say, that my debate with Ayaz on the 22 Januar in Birmingham has yet once more been cancelled.

I am not certain about the exact reason.

The Muslims were responsible for the venue, and the date was as I am aware of decided between our Muslims in Birmingham and my team in the UK.

By pure luck I contacted the Muslims about the progress of the arrangements and was chocked when informed that the venue, date and debate was still in progress, but against another Christian brother.

If I had not randomly contacted the Muslims, I would still have bought my flight ticked, used a significant amount of money for nothing.

A similar incident indeed occured related to David Wood and Nabeel this year, when the Islamic group MDI in UK managed to urge Islamic debaters in the US to cancel debates with Acts17 last year. A lot of money and time was wasted:

http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2010/05/abdullah-al-andalusi-does-mdi-need-new.html

There is suspicion that Ayaz and his team in Birmingham are running. If that is the case, I don't mind, but I wish they would have informed me about this sudden move in reasonably good time.

In a dialogoue between me and Ayaz (earlier this year) over 'the talking ant' in the Qur'an, it became rather obvious that Ayaz did not appear significantly able to deal with indepth debating (the dialogue can be read here):

http://debunkingquranicscience.blogspot.com/2010/07/ant-in-bible-and-quran-dialogue-between.html

Perhaps the cause of the pull-out relates to such matters.

However, earlier this year a certain Muslim, by the name Anjum Ahmed, whose writing style resembled that of Yahya Snow, attempted several times to obtain information about Ayaz, such as emails, etc.

Everyone knows that Yahya Snow has been playing dirty since the very start, and appeard to launch a campaign to cancel debates between Muslims and the Acts17 team.

This is speculation from my side but I am inclined to think that Yahya Snow or possibly others indeed managed to influence the Birmingham Dawah team to back out at the very last minute, and even without warning. A move that resembles the sudden cancellation between Muslims and Acts17 earlier this year.

This is the eamil I received from this Muslim, which I believe is Yahya Snow (notice the fellow Brit thing, a sentence I have only heard from this particular propagandaist):

First email:

Peace be with you Hogan
Can I have Ayaz's email address, I can't find it anywhere!!!
I wanted to talk to him about a private issue. He doesn't know me. I have to ask him some questions.
Thank you my fellow Brit.
Anjum

Second email:

Peace be with you Hogan
Can I have Ayaz's email address, I can't find it anywhere!!!
I wanted to talk to him about a private issue. He doesn't know me. I have to ask him some questions.
Thank you my fellow Brit.
Anjum

Since I do not share email addresses online I obviously declined.

I can't say that I am fully aware of full reason for the sudden decision of the Birmingham Dawah team to pull out. They have complained about matters related to the question-answer part of the event, which as far as I was told was a matter clarified. But I find this new trend worrying, especially when so much money and so many people are involved. I should have been informed about this sudden change of decision well ahead of time and not through my own initiative.

Sorry for my recent Absence

I want to apologize for my absence the last six months. We have moved into a rather significant ministry (still within the field of apologetics), which has demanded significant time to adapt into a new administration, different topics and a lot of research and teaching.

I intend to resume my writing on my blogs and the answeringmuslims.org blog in nearest future.

Be ready for a whole lot more information on these blogs the next months.

I also agreed upon a written debate with Ehteshaam Gulam on the 'death of Jesus'. Sorry for my delay brother Gulam. Do contact me if you read this.

God bless

Does the Sun orbit the Earth According to the Qur'an?

I was hoping some Muslims could educate us about these passages.

“(God is) the one Who created the night, the day, the sun and the moon. Each one is travelling in an orbit with its own motion” (Sura 21: 33).

I find it rather obvious from what this passage depicts that the day and night depends upon the orbit of the sun and moon. In other words, contrary to what Muslim apologists exclaim about the sun's galactic orbit, the passage appears rather to describe the sun and the moon in parallel orbits.

It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law)(Sura 36: 40).

That the Qur'an refers to parallel orbits is further clarified in this passage, which states that the sun and the moon do not catch up each other.

Think of it: what sense does this make if the Qur'an described a galatic orbit since the moon is already attached to such an orbit, and since the orbit relates not to the galaxy but the day and night? Furthermore, notice that this passage states the impossible task of the sun to catch up the moon.

Why can't the sun catch up the moon, is due to its inability to do so? No really! The passage makes it clearly that the sun is not permitted to do so. In other words, the sun has the ability to catch the moon, hence the switch from day to night, since both travel in parallel orbits; yet their abilities to catch up is simply not permitted.

I might here agree with some that the passages are metaphorical, much like Sura 91: 1-2:

By the Sun and his (glorious) splendour; By the Moon as she follows him…(Sura 91: 1-2)

I must say I have no real problem with the metaphorical language of this passage, and I am inclined to believe that this simply describes what is observable from the earth.

Yet there are two further problems here:

The first, which I will refrain from looking at at this point, is the very language utilized by the Qur'an in describing the orbits, which appear to be in a close similtude with the pre-Islamic thinkers.

The second problem derives from the interpretation of Muhammad himself:

Sahih Al-Bukbari clearly confirms some of these as scientific facts (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421: Narrated Abu Dharr):

The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west.
And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: ‘And the sun Runs its fixed course for a term (decreed). That is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing.’" (36.38)

An Outsider's Observation and Perspective

While I am not living in USA, I have to say that the anti-Christian, liberal, and extreme pro-Islamic movement astonishes me. I guess this is what we Christians refer to as the spirit of anti-Christ.

What do we mean by that! Well in what sense do liberalism, atheism (frequently) and Islam cohere together? Where is the logic? Personally as I see it: these, despite their diversity all originate from the same root!

Here is a comment I found on a forum related to the possibility that Obama is a Muslim in disguise. More and more Americans seem to take this view onboard.

What really concerns me when I read such information is not merely Obama religious view, but the collective force, the trend in USA of liberalists, atheists, media, the political system along with Islam that manages to suppress Christianity to such an extent that the next step practically speaking can only result in serious future injustice against the Christian community.

We can only imagine the effect when such individuals are placed in every significant post of the American society, whether religious affairs, foreign ministry and national security.

Such individuals will simply sell or hand over your nation and rights to foreign forces and cultures, typically due to political correctness or due to decades of mind-twisting liberal and postmodernist philosophies.

Anyway here is the comment!

(I would like to know if all these points are based upon reality and whether the situation really is what the comment portrays.)

You decide for yourself America:

A Christian University is asked to
cover all Crosses in order to have the Pres to speak there, so that it wouldn't
offend "the muslims."

Christians are asked to pray in the street and not
on the lawn of the white house, just a couple of weeks ago;

White House
holds "ram-a-@#$% dinner", a muslim holiday, this last week at the white house;

NASA is asked to not explore space, but to "reach out to the muslim
nations, and let them know how much they've contributed to "space innovation";

Our pres has repeatedly said we are "not a Christian Nation."

Is
he Christian or Muslim?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100819/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_poll_obama_s_religion

The Big Bang and the Qur'an???

This post includes an essay on the Qur'an and Cosmogony with a focus on the Big Bang theory, which I wrote five years ago. The purpose was obviously to debunk the various exponents of Islam (e.g. Bucaille, Harun Yahya and Osama Abdallah) who propagate their wishful imagination to what they deem as scientific evidence for the Qur'an.

Since then I have greatly expanded my insight into the matter and am currently preparing a more detailed work, which I may post in small parts or in a lengthy essay in near future.
Notice that my intention here is not to debunk the improbability of the Qur'anic view (that will derive in a later post) but to point out that the Qur'anic picture of the cosmological origin was a view that flourished centuries prior to the rise of Islam, and which the authors and composers of the Qur'an appear to have borrowed from circulating teaching or sources, sometimes (possibly) even word for word.

To assess the cosmology of the Qur’an our study has to begin with its concept of cosmogony, the origins. Here Muslims usually refer to Sura 21: 30:

‘Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe? (Sura 21: 30)’

Read more...

http://debunkingquranicscience.blogspot.com/2010/07/quran-and-big-bang-theory-in-comparsion.html

Is this atheist logic?

Was just informed by an atheist that the cells and DNA system simply confirms that God lacks imagination and furthermore that if God willed or created the cells to reproduce themselves by copies why only cells, why do typical animal or human beings not possess the ability to simply copy themselves rather than undergo the process of sexual intercourse, conception and birth?

What... are atheists now claiming that the DNA system reveals lack of imagination???

Sounds like Dawkins' assertions: that the molecule world is so simple that the evolutionary process easily explains its existance and functions. I agree with Stuart Burgess, that Dawkins' proposition here is naive to the core. The cell and DNA system constitutes a world of complexity far too incomprihensive for modern scientists to fathom.

Hence such an atheist claim amounts to accomplish nothing but to reveal desparation and silliness.

And how about the other argument, that God could have willed the animal world to copy themselves in similar ways to the cells. If that is supposed to be creative imagination the reality is quite the opposite; in fact such an idea reveals only the atheist expectation and view of the world in general, that of chaos, funny how continuous chaos is viewed as comparative with a creative mind of order.

Good grief, what a world, I can imagine making a copy of myself on a everyday basis, imagine 10.000 Hogan Elijah Hagbard's; I can imagine a quick human exodus to Mars. How could we cope, yet imagine a world that was a million times more populated than presently? Would life not have seized several millenniums ago?

Are we not rather to conclude that the world, production and function of the cells and that of the animal and human world are better separated and hence merely reveals the effective mindset of divine intellegence?